Google will owe millions, maybe billions, to Oracle no matter what

By Rachel King | July 21, 2011, 4:00pm PDT

Summary

Oracle came in hoping for a trial. Google came in hoping for a stay. All they got were stern lectures from the judge without an answer about where the case goes next.

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SAN FRANCISCO — Oracle came in hoping for a trial as soon as possible. Google came in hoping for a stay. All they got were stern lectures from the judge without a response to their joint motion filed this week.

For a hearing on a sunny Thursday afternoon, there was a considerable crowd in the courtroom at the United States Courthouse in San Francisco with at least a few dozen people looking on behind Google and Oracle’s legal teams with four to five lawyers each.

Google’s argument centered on the claim that Oracle has completely failed to link the value of its patents and copyrights with any kind of damages. Additionally, Google’s lawyers repeatedly discussed Google’s relationship with Sun Microsystems, the original force behind Java now owned by Oracle. Google argued that Sun was a big fan of Android from the start, seeing it as a tool to “spread news and word about Java.”

Basically, Google is saying if it wasn’t a problem with the creator at the time, then there isn’t a case for patent infringement.

However, Google backtracked to say that Android does not use Java Virtual Machine but rather just the programming language that is available for anyone to use for free.

Oracle stepped in and argued that Google basically just took the Java architecture and renamed it. Oracle’s legal team also put forth their opinion that Google’s argument seems to be that the damages should be zero in this case.

Fortunately for Oracle, Judge William H. Alsup agreed with Oracle on this point, saying that such a claim would be ridiculous, and that Google is definitely going to pay up “probably in the millions, maybe in the billions” at some point.

However, that’s where the judge’s favor ended. Along with ordering both sides to “be more reasonable,” Alsup got angry after Oracle passed out several binders containing evidence, mainly email messages that Oracle intended to use to reflect that Google was trying to figure out how to get around Java patent licenses. The judge was upset because Oracle’s lawyers tried to keep some of the info under wraps even though it was presented at a public hearing, reminding both parties that “you big companies do not own the U.S. District Court.”

But when it comes down to it, Oracle really screwed up because it couldn’t present exact patents and evidence of infringement upon them, with estimates ranging from seven to 50 to 123.

Considering Google kept contradicting itself and Oracle didn’t seem as prepared as it should have been, it’s not surprising that Judge Alsup didn’t offer any resolution on Thursday. This tech courtroom drama will continue for a long time.

Another twist in the case on Thursday: Florian Mueller reported that Oracle is stepping up its $2.6 billion claims to cut in on Android-related, non-mobile businesses owned by Google. Thus, advertising. It’s a long shot, but not impossible as Judge Alsup did acknowledge during the proceeding that advertising revenues are a way to determine Android’s value. Oracle could end up with triple whatever base amount is finalized (Google even acknowledges it could be between $1.4 and $6.1 billion) if the Judge finds that Google willingly and knowingly infringed upon Oracle’s patents.

More coverage about Google vs. Oracle:

• Google ready to settle with Oracle over Android IP?
• Oracle looks for Page pyrotechnics in Google Android lawsuit
• Google CEO: Competitors won’t slow us down
• Oracle wants billions from Google over Android: And just might get it
• Google pans Oracle damages argument: Java was fragmented well before Android
• Oracle wants big cut of Android damages as Google’s IP headache gets worse

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/google-will-owe-millions-maybe-billions-to-oracle-no-matter-what/52975

Google ready to settle with Oracle over Android IP?

By Larry Dignan | July 20, 2011, 2:20pm PDT

Summary

Google and Oracle continue to bicker over whether their courtroom battle over whether Android infringes on Java patents, but there’s at least a hint that the search giant may want to settle out of court.

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Google and Oracle continue to bicker over whether their courtroom battle over whether Android infringes on Java patents, but there’s at least a hint that the search giant may want to settle out of court.

The two parties filed a joint response focusing on whether their trial should be stayed as Oracle’s patent standing is resolved. Not surprisingly, Google wants a stay. Oracle wants to go to trial without a stay so it can pelt Google with every patent it has. Florian Mueller has the recap of the stay issue and the Oracle and Google back and forth.

However, the one line that caught Mueller’s eye is the passage below. The document is embedded via Scribd below.

Indeed, should this case be narrowed to only a few claims modified in the course of the reexamination, any damages claim would be materially limited by, among other things, the doctrine of intervening rights. Such a narrowed case will also eliminate the need for those efforts specifically directed at the claims rejected through reexamination, including motion practice, expert reports, and other trial preparation, as well as make it more likely that the parties could reach an informal resolution of the matter. In short, both parties and the Court would benefit from a stay pending reexamination.

Informal resolution? Google appears to be willing to pass a few billion to resolve this IP nightmare.

Mueller noted:

In principle, it’s constructive if a party indicates a willingness to settle. But there’s a fundamental difference between negotiating in private and letting the court (as well as the public) know — more than three months before the scheduled trial (!) — that one isn’t so sure of one’s defenses anymore. This stands in clear contradiction to Google’s past positions and declarations, and it looks increasingly like an admission all by itself. Discovery is almost complete, and it probably didn’t go too well for Google.

In other words, Oracle clearly has Google in the crosshairs. Oracle argued that the case needs to be resolved quickly because Android is gaining share and the infringement will only get worse. The possible outcomes go like this:

• The judge decides on a stay and the two parties may settle.
• The judge agrees with Oracle and this lawsuit goes to trial. A good scenario for Oracle.
• Oracle sees that “informal resolution” remark and the two parties start talking.

Also see:

• Oracle looks for Page pyrotechnics in Google Android lawsuit
• Google pans Oracle damages argument: Java was fragmented well before Android

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http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/google-ready-to-settle-with-oracle-over-android-ip/52884